Curse

Light And Peace · Oct 26, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

moves away from player interaction? im sorry but where have you been? its been like this since nf. adding new hero slots wont change anything. those who want to pug will and those who dont wont. simple as that.

Um, I don't see how it doesn't decrease player player interaction.

Those people who are pugging 2's with 3 heroes each, who would otherwise play alone with 7 heroes is what we'll loose.

It's a move away from it.

It's definitely not a move TOWARDS it.

Obviously.

Simple as that.

Daesu · Oct 26, 2010, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light And Peace

Um, I don't see how it doesn't decrease player player interaction.

Those people who are pugging 2's with 3 heroes each, who would otherwise play alone with 7 heroes is what we'll loose.

It's a move away from it.

It's definitely not a move TOWARDS it.

Obviously.

Simple as that.

Even though I am supportive of the 7-heroes initiative, I may not use it as much as the 6-heroes system that I am already currently using.

Last night I completed all the FoW quests with my 6-heroes, bringing the new statues to both my accounts in one sitting. Advantages of 6-heroes over 7-heroes:

1. I have double the drops and rewards which is nice especially in elite missions.
2. I complete the quest/mission only ONCE for both accounts instead of just one.
3. I can split the team easier
4. I can have more of the same types of heroes in the team (e.g. 6 necros, 4 rits, etc.)
5. I have 6 PvE skills in the team instead of only 3.

Price for that:

I spent real world money for a wireless keyboard and mouse. I also have a laptop. Therefore, I used real world money to gain an advantage in the game over those who can't afford these hardware and would continue to do even more so if ANet doesn't implement 7-heroes for us.

Those who don't care to pug, would probably continue not to pug with or without 7-heroes. Those who do pug, would probably continue to do so one way or another.

Skyy High · Oct 26, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light And Peace

Um, I don't see how it doesn't decrease player player interaction.

Those people who are pugging 2's with 3 heroes each, who would otherwise play alone with 7 heroes is what we'll loose.

It's a move away from it.

It's definitely not a move TOWARDS it.

Obviously.

Simple as that.

How many people really go out of their way to do that with a PUG though? Most 2 man 6 hero teams are comprised of two friends or guildies, or two random strangers who wanted to PUG a mission but couldn't find anyone else to join their party so they each filled the team with heroes. 7 hero teams won't affect either of those groups in any way.

The people who would just grab 7 AI helpers and be on their way already do so. Simple as that.

Spookii · Oct 26, 2010, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Those who don't care to pug, would probably continue not to pug with or without 7-heroes. Those who do pug, would probably continue to do so one way or another.

This.

Forcing someone to play with someone else is a good idea...why? Some people genuinely like playing solo. There's more to a MMO than just killing things with other people. Some people like to chat with other players, not play with them. Some people like the idea of a living economy in a game rather than no economy in a single player game.

People already can get to 6 heroes with no extra player. I used to do it with my friend. I didn't really want to Vanquish with him, but he didn't want to use henchmen. So I'd load mine up, zone out with him and then leave. He'd have my heroes while Vanquishing.

There are ways to get around it and there's nothing wrong with not playing with someone else when that was one of the things Guild Wars advertised "Play on your own, or play with friends".

GranDeWun · Oct 26, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

The perfect example of a mission I want to do with more heros is the Battle for Lion's Arch. On two characters, I've come very close, but can't quite complete it with 3 heros.

Dark-NighT · Oct 26, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Hmmm i just thought of something that could be very usefull.

Allow grouping of heroes, so if you have for instance 3 heroes that you always use on that character, allow them to be grouped together so that when you select one of the 3 grouped heroes to add to your party, the other 2 heroes automatically join the party as well, this would save quite a bit of time, scrolling and all that. Now if you are happy with the 7 hero team that youve put together, it would be so easy to just select one of the heroes in that team, and fill the party in an instant, this ofcourse is great, but shouldnt be allowed to work in towns and outpost that allow 4 or 6 party members with a team of 7 grouped up.

Thoughts?

Baobao23 · Oct 27, 2010, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

The perfect example of a mission I want to do with more heros is the Battle for Lion's Arch. On two characters, I've come very close, but can't quite complete it with 3 heros.

The Battle for LA provided a good example. In this mission, it was almost impossible to complete with H/H due to henchmen in LA being level 15; that being said, it's always good to have an option to add an all hero party in such areas which require players to look for a group but cannot find any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

Hmmm i just thought of something that could be very usefull.

Allow grouping of heroes, so if you have for instance 3 heroes that you always use on that character, allow them to be grouped together so that when you select one of the 3 grouped heroes to add to your party, the other 2 heroes automatically join the party as well, this would save quite a bit of time, scrolling and all that. Now if you are happy with the 7 hero team that youve put together, it would be so easy to just select one of the heroes in that team, and fill the party in an instant, this ofcourse is great, but shouldnt be allowed to work in towns and outpost that allow 4 or 6 party members with a team of 7 grouped up.

Thoughts?

I would think the hero slots 4-7 (or 8), would act in the same nature as henchmen. The first 3 heroes would probably be stuck to your team, while the other 3 or more would be removed once you log out, go to a pvp area, solo mission, etc.

sibila · Oct 27, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Playing with all hero's is nothing new to most players for they have been playing with 6 hero's ever since Nightfall came out, the only down side to the 6 heros is when you rezone.
Still it would be nice if they did implement the full use of the 7 hero's on one account.

refer · Oct 28, 2010, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I hate the fact that they are adding 7 heros. For me, PvE will be dead when that happens. PUGs are the only reason I am compelled to play PvE, and with this addition people will only carry "ways" with them and forget real people.

I have never actually experienced "elite PUGs" or "you must run this" or anything negative at all. In fact, I don't even get mean players. But then again I don't project that either so maybe I get what I'm putting out.

Guild Wars started off as an ONLINE game, yes online in PvE too. Now it's basically an offline game that just happens to take place online. Stupid. Part of the fun is having limitations and things to work around, that can get creativity working and trying new things. Now with 7 heros, you can just tell them all what to do while you deep fry a turkey on the side and watch porn at the same time. It will be too easy and that's not fun. Remember Pokemon Snap anybody?

There needs to be some real incentive to NOT take heros since everybody will be doing it no matter what. Better than henchmen are needed for elite missions and the elite stuff nobody is around for, but I do think that having them so customizable as heros isn't right. I'd actually like some kind of codex-like rotating half hero/henchmen... that would be interesting. It would be close to PUGs since you don't always have the final word on what everybody on the whole team runs, but you can influence and mold them, and like real players, they come and go.

I've done The Deep and Urgoz multiple times and for the most part they were easy. I really wonder how Mallyx and the others will be now.

The WIK was only so hard because the henchmen weren't modified for it. They should have come up with some kind of blessing or boost that made them level 20 and at least carry an elite if played in NM. It was doable but ridiculous otherwise.

End · Oct 28, 2010, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Sooo ever think they thought about all this? and that there will be some sort of downside to using a full hero party? reworking the loot scaling a bit to be based more on the number of heros and what not?

Your right thats to much work for anet.

Skyy High · Oct 28, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

I hate the fact that they are adding 7 heros. For me, PvE will be dead when that happens. PUGs are the only reason I am compelled to play PvE, and with this addition people will only carry "ways" with them and forget real people.

You're going to need to explain exactly why you think that people who PUG now are suddenly going to stop PUG-ing when given 7 heroes, because it's the central tenet of your post, and it's completely bonkers.

Quote:

Guild Wars started off as an ONLINE game, yes online in PvE too. Now it's basically an offline game that just happens to take place online. Stupid.

People started playing GW as a single-player game back in Prophecies. Factions made it common. Nightfall made it almost the default. I don't see how this particular change can alter things any further, and I don't see how going against this change will make everyone PUG again. It won't.

Quote:

Part of the fun is having limitations and things to work around, that can get creativity working and trying new things. Now with 7 heros, you can just tell them all what to do while you deep fry a turkey on the side and watch porn at the same time. It will be too easy and that's not fun.

Odd, I can do that now (the flagging my h/h into a mob and then tabbing out to do something else, not the turkey or porn).

Quote:

There needs to be some real incentive to NOT take heros since everybody will be doing it no matter what.

PvE skills. Title buffs. A brain. That last one is only theoretical.

Daesu · Oct 28, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

I hate the fact that they are adding 7 heros. For me, PvE will be dead when that happens. PUGs are the only reason I am compelled to play PvE, and with this addition people will only carry "ways" with them and forget real people.

I have never actually experienced "elite PUGs" or "you must run this" or anything negative at all. In fact, I don't even get mean players. But then again I don't project that either so maybe I get what I'm putting out.

Guild Wars started off as an ONLINE game, yes online in PvE too. Now it's basically an offline game that just happens to take place online. Stupid. Part of the fun is having limitations and things to work around, that can get creativity working and trying new things. Now with 7 heros, you can just tell them all what to do while you deep fry a turkey on the side and watch porn at the same time. It will be too easy and that's not fun. Remember Pokemon Snap anybody?

There needs to be some real incentive to NOT take heros since everybody will be doing it no matter what. Better than henchmen are needed for elite missions and the elite stuff nobody is around for, but I do think that having them so customizable as heros isn't right. I'd actually like some kind of codex-like rotating half hero/henchmen... that would be interesting. It would be close to PUGs since you don't always have the final word on what everybody on the whole team runs, but you can influence and mold them, and like real players, they come and go.

I've done The Deep and Urgoz multiple times and for the most part they were easy. I really wonder how Mallyx and the others will be now.

The WIK was only so hard because the henchmen weren't modified for it. They should have come up with some kind of blessing or boost that made them level 20 and at least carry an elite if played in NM. It was doable but ridiculous otherwise.

Actually there should be incentive for people to use heroes than a full human team because all the human teams I have been playing with recently are better than heroes.

They provided cons + 24 PvE skills per team instead of just 3, we roll over most of PvE.

Furthermore, many places favor split and a human team more than heroes like Deep and Eternal Grove. Human teams can also handle AoE damage attacks better since they dont clump together.

The advantage heroes offer is the CONVENIENCE of assembling your team quicker, but Embark Reach would also grant that for the human teams so I dont see why you should be asking for extra reward for the easier option.

I am not worried that no one would PUG because the weaker and casual players would still rely on PUGs, so all ANet needs to do is to make the content harder if they so decide to force people to PUG. The more skillful people can clear HM Slavers with H/H, while most players still cant do that even now. Obviously PUG is the easier option to clear a tough area.

Baobao23 · Oct 28, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

I hate the fact that they are adding 7 heros. For me, PvE will be dead when that happens. PUGs are the only reason I am compelled to play PvE, and with this addition people will only carry "ways" with them and forget real people.

Read this,

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Yyyyup. I see it this way. There are 3 categories of players:

1. People who love playing with others. They will PUG or run with guildies because it's how they like to play the game. Update doesn't affect them at all.

2. People who have a good friend or a few good friends to play with. I play with my fiancee a lot, and we'll continue to bring ourselves and 3 heroes each. The update doesn't affect these people at all.

3. People who use H/H for everything. These people use 3 heroes + henchmen or 1 player + 6 heroes (I do this for FoW and have seen several others do it too). They will benefit from the 7 hero update, but the strength of a team doesn't change all that dramatically. DoA and FoW can be done with 1+6, it's just annoying. The update lets these people play conveniently in the way they prefer. It doesn't steal people from the other groups. Really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

Guild Wars started off as an ONLINE game, yes online in PvE too. Now it's basically an offline game that just happens to take place online. Stupid. Part of the fun is having limitations and things to work around, that can get creativity working and trying new things. Now with 7 heros, you can just tell them all what to do while you deep fry a turkey on the side and watch porn at the same time. It will be too easy and that's not fun. Remember Pokemon Snap anybody?

If you read the box cover of Prophecies, Guild Wars was actually hailed as an MMORPG that really isn't MMORPG due to the fact it allowed players to play with other players OR play solo (in that sense it's a CORPG). This option that allowed players to play whatever way they wanted in Guild Wars was actually one of the reasons why it was voted as the Game of the Year in 2005-2006.

Next, heroes actually need to be controlled at times not the way you describe it as leaving them letting them do all the work. Some really difficult areas like DOA (Foundry) have monsters that do devastating AOE spells. If you just flag your heroes all in one place, I'm pretty sure it will be the monsters that would be deep drying turkey and not you lol.

Hobbs · Oct 28, 2010, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Title buffs.

Heroes share your title buffs.

Daeheru · Oct 28, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Can't wait for this update. I hope it happens soon, unlike that dervish buff that was announced MONTHS ago and still no word about it. I might actually want to VQ now instead of forcing myself to do it for titles.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 28, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

Heroes share your title buffs.

But not PvE-only skills which can be considered title buffs in a way.

refer · Oct 28, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baobao23

Next, heroes actually need to be controlled at times not the way you describe it as leaving them letting them do all the work. Some really difficult areas like DOA (Foundry) have monsters that do devastating AOE spells. If you just flag your heroes all in one place, I'm pretty sure it will be the monsters that would be deep drying turkey and not you lol.

I could have sworn I put in a section in my post for elite missions or such, but apparently not. What I mean is for non elite things and not hard mode, 7 heros is overkill. Maybe HM + elite missions need them since I never see PUGs or anything for that aside of zmission, but not NM. Still, most of what I've observed while playing is just "take the H/H instead" even in spite of titles and PvE skills.

Improvavel · Oct 28, 2010, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

Still, most of what I've observed while playing is just "take the H/H instead" even in spite of titles and PvE skills.

And that will be the next battle.

Pve-only skills for heroes too. :P

Poor Mel without her aura of holy might or Gwen without her cry of pain. What about Morganh and Hayda without theirs "Nothing to fear" and "SY"? And Xandra keeps telling me always dropping spirits at a new location is boring. And finally someone to cast GDW on me and my friend when we are both warriors!

Since I always have 6 heroes with me (2 players+6 heroes) all the time, I calculate that I would end up doing stuff in half the time.

Arduin · Oct 28, 2010, 11:50 AM // 11:50

And after that, Improval, the heroes should be able to run around all by themselves, so you only have to enter an area in HM and they will vanquish it for you in ~30 minutes

JONO51 · Oct 28, 2010, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Looking forward to crushing areas even faster.